Talk:Nagi Arisuin

Nagi's gender
Hey, this page misgenders Alice throughout. She's pretty clearly a woman, constantly referring to herself as such, and this page doesn't reflect that. Could someone with the power to edit this page fix this? Scarfired (talk) 20:21, March 6, 2016 (UTC)


 * He's biologically a male, he just thinks and acts as a female but that doesn't make him female. So he'll be listed as a male. End of discussion. 04:34,3/7/2016
 * The topic of LGBT is a too sensitive discussion that often tends to derail discussion no matter where it is opened. As an admin in the Steins;gate Wiki, there have been several occasions where the article on Ruka Urushibara is often edited with the same purpose: to classify Ruka as a transgender because of its definition. HOWEVER, there are no official sources that indicate that Ruka is explicitly classified as transgender and the same case applies to Alice. For that reason, this wiki will assume that he is a male based on conventional classifications of gender. The wiki will stick to this stand, and will not tolerate any kind of aggressive action to oppose this. heraldofmeridian♣ 15:06, March 11, 2016 (UTC)

Leaving LGBT etc bullshit aside, doesn't this character refer to themselves as female? I was under the impression that if every character in a show, including the character in question, refer to someone a certain way, that would be the correct way to refer to them.

This is a situation that needs to be divorced from the politics surrounding it. The purpose of a wiki is to present information in a non-biased manner. It requires fewer assumptions on the creators' behalf to interpret this character as transgendered, and not doing so betrays the very political agenda this admin claimed not to harbor. This is a place for logic, not emotions, and it's very disheartening to see people who claim to be motivated by the former behaving so irrationally.

24.78.122.156 08:53, March 28, 2016 (UTC)guest

I'm acting very rationally. If your father refers himself as a female does it make him a female. No it doesn't, same logic as that. Besides Nagi himself already stated clearly he's biologically a male. 10:55,3/28/2016

Article Transphobia and Inaccuracy
So, this article is very inaccurate. It begins by presenting Arisuin's gender as 'male' despite the fact that by any accepted meaning of the word (either presentation or identity) not fueled by bias she is '''female. 'This article then goes on to present even more ''inaccuracies about transgender people by claiming, despite every single piece of evidence pointing to the contrary, that Arisuin " believes he (she) is a girl trapped inside a man's body." which, again, goes against every bit of evidence avalible to science currently.

I could go on and on about how objectively inaccurate that is, though I'll get to my main point. This article should be changed to reflect the reality of the situation. Arisuin is very clearly a woman by (again) any accepted and reasonable definition of gender, and her gender info and pronouns throughout the article should be fixed to accurately reflect this. This isn't something that's up for debate, the author presented her as a woman, and the denial of this is quite transphobic and the objective rejection of the author's direct purpose. This isn't even to mention the horrendous grammar mistakes throughout the article that I'm, given the writer mindset, not too surprised about. HeartArrow (talk) 08:44, September 23, 2017 (UTC)


 * I would be fine defining Arisuin's gender as female and changing the article, but considering there seems to have been some discussion about this topic previously, the admins should probably also express their opinions. About the grammar, however, I can't agree with you, as looking through the page, I don't notice any of these "horrendous grammar mistakes" you are talking about. But, please by all means, if you see mistaken grammar feel free to fix it Alterdream (talk) 15:15, September 24, 2017 (UTC)

Bias
See, here's the thing: the logical conclusion your obvious bias doesn't seem to be letting you understand. It doesn't matter if you think Alice should be called a female in the article or not. This isn't your work, this is Riku Misora's work. And that means, if Alice is referred to as a "he" in the light novel dialogue and narration, then it's clear the author meant for Alice to still be considered a male, if even only biologically. But that is the basis for decisions like this, not your personal preferences. Now, I haven't seen much of Alice in the light novels for a while and it's been some time since I read the earlier volumes, so I can't say which it is, but my suggestion is to look to the light novels and make a decision based on that. A wiki is about recording information, not making it about some personal agenda, so spare your feelings on the subject and act professionally. I despise seeing comment sections about nonsense like this. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 04:38, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

Saying that one conclusion has an "obvious bias" is not arguing in good faith. With that said, the fan translation uses "he" a lot, but we should refer to the Japanese text instead as pronouns are used much less commonly in that language and the fan translation may have erred on the wrong side of things due to widespread ignorance of what being transgender means. Alice saying she's a woman in the body of a man describes that exactly, yet I've seen a lot of people be confused about it and this is far from the only time this has happened in anime. I don't currently own any of the Japanese LN volumes that Alice appears in, so I'll have to investigate this further. However, I would strongly argue against making "Alice is biologically a man and should be referred to as such" the starting line--this in itself introduces bias and opposes not only actual science but contradicts a number of reviews of the anime that refer to Alice as a transgender woman without batting an eye (including Digibro's videos and ANN's episode reviews). --77.161.126.44 08:29, January 15, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, there is absolutely no reason for Alice's gender to be "male" and for this page to use he/him pronouns
In the show, she is explicitly referred to as "her" many, many times. I am appalled that the administrators of this wikia let this page stand as-is, and is blocked for editing. This page is extremely transphobic in every definition of the word, and I hope you open your fucking eyes soon and stop thinking this way. The creators of the show portray Alice as a sympahtetic trans woman, and this article should be immedietaly updated to reflect that.

CarmenK72 (talk) 20:27, February 5, 2019 (UTC)CarmenK72

You edit it yourself. You're a registered user. i am pikapika200 (talk) 03:01, April 1, 2019 (UTC)

I fixed the gender,but we should call her what she wants to be called
She wants to be called Alice. The article's title is basically deadnaming her. i am pikapika200 (talk) 03:06, April 1, 2019 (UTC)

oh,wait,maybe,she wouldn't get offended by being called Nagi. I don't know whether calling her Nagi would offend her or not if she were real. i am pikapika200 (talk) 15:21, April 1, 2019 (UTC)

Alice is trans
Alice very clearly identifes as female. Also, her name is Alice. This page is transphobic no matter how I look at it. i am pikapika200 (talk) 23:57, April 12, 2019 (UTC)

This is not even a close to a case of Transgender
This is a fictional character in a light novel/manga/anime, and it doesn't fit or have the same principles in real life. So instead of wasting everyone's time fighting for the "rights" of a fictional character and causing everyone to fix all the slander that people like you put on here. Nobody one on this site who disagrees with your constant rants is in no way transphobic or whatever else you believe.

Especially, since transgender issues, has never been at all mentioned in the wiki so this doesn't even fit as being a discussion for Rakudai Kishi no Eiyuutan and Nagi is biologically a male. So, if you all feel so strongly about this read these next words carefully:


 * 1) Stop fighting for the rights of an anime character who doesn't exist.
 * 2) If you feel so strongly about the transgender rights of another person, then fight for the rights or a REAL person and not a FICTIONAL person.
 * 3) Writing this doesn't mean that I'm a bigot or transphobic, I believe that everyone has the right to be whoever they want as long as it doesn't physically harm other people.
 * 4) And most importantly number FOUR. If all this is just because you're bored and just wanted to be a troll, then you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

DevilSlayer123 (talk)

Nothing you just said makes any sense. Fiction obviously reflects things in real life. We're also not "fighting for the rights" of a fictional character, we're simply trying to define things properly. Alice refers to herself as being a woman in a man's body, which is literally the definition of a trans woman. Not only is it asinine to try and pretend otherwise, but properly recognizing representation of a minority that people have historically tried to erase is important. If you don't recognize that, then either you are a transphobe despite what you say, or you're just woefully ignorant because of your privilege. Implying that we're all trolls just because you're not willing to look further than the end of your nose isn't arguing in good faith either.

--Rosiero (talk) 22:27, November 17, 2019 (UTC)

Do the mods know what transgenderism is??
Like, okay, her sex is male. That enough is obvious, but Alice is most definitely a woman lmao. Sex and gender aren't the same thing, and it'd probably be best to add a "gender" marker on her profile. It just baffles me that despite the fact that she's referred to by Alice and everyone around her uses feminine pronouns and yet the mods for some reason feel the need to go out of their way to misgender her? I came here to learn some more stuff about her but now I just kind of wanna steer clear of this wiki if this is how the mods are.DeNile.EXE (talk) 05:59, August 12, 2019 (UTC)

Could somebody either a) unlock the page and let somebody edit it to be accurate or b) just edit it themselves to be accurate? there are so many mistakes it's driving me insane.--Pyralspiting (talk) 13:30, September 28, 2019 (UTC)


 * If it's driving you insane, you may wish to find better uses of your mental faculties. This article seems to have been protected due to frequent vandalism, and as someone who works hard on other wikias, I don't begrudge them this. Until people learn to leave well enough alone, I don't see any reason for the admins to unlock this page.--—Mina Țepeș (talk) 00:22, September 29, 2019 (UTC)
 * So what you're saying is, we're all retarded for being frustrated by this. Very classy. --Rosiero (talk) 22:28, November 17, 2019 (UTC)
 * So what you're saying is, we're all retarded for being frustrated by this. Very classy. --Rosiero (talk) 22:28, November 17, 2019 (UTC)

Official light novel translation
Sol Press' official translation of the light novels refers to Alice as a woman and uses female pronouns. It's also worth nothing that even in the story itself, Shizuku says that Alice should be considered a woman because she considers herself one. If that isn't a statement by the author, I don't know what is. --Rosiero (talk) 22:30, November 17, 2019 (UTC)

Isn't it time to lock this talk page? People have been at it for ages now, and by this point, it's not actually worth allowing to continue. If an admin could lock this page, that sounds like a great idea.--—Mina Țepeș (talk) 22:32, November 17, 2019 (UTC)

Except that localizations are written by another party. One not inherently tied to the original author, which means how the localization writers handle it is in no way definitive proof of anything. That's like trying to say a secondary source is just as reliable as a primary source. It's no different than when the english dub of Dragon Maid had Lucoa say something about the patriarchy when the source material had nothing of the sort being said. Right now, you're just making yourself look even more ignorant than the 'transphobes' you think you're fighting against. Just drop it already. Silver-Haired Seireitou (Dosvidaniya, tovarisch.) 23:03, November 17, 2019 (UTC)

The original author uses male pronouns so we're sticking with that. Enough already, I'm locking this thread. AP24 (talk) 00:34, November 18, 2019 (UTC)